Appotus Dominus

[Righteous]

This forum has seen active discussion and debate about the economic situation in the U.S. and what should be done about it. The unpredicented spending strategies of the new President and the Democratically controlled Congress and Senate have stoked this discussion.

The breakneck (not the moose) speed with which the President's $787 Billion plan was pushed through Congress to become law (not ONE congressman had time to read it) has been a point of criticism by me and some others during this discussion.

Most would agree (whatever one's political leaning), that our elected officials who are charged with making decisions on our behalf, inherently have a fundamental ethical responsibility and duty to read and understand (to the best of their abilities) each piece of legislation they vote on. Regretably, this did not occur on the single largest spending decision in U.S. history, the recently passed spending legislation.

It seems that more and more members of Congress, in particular Senators from the President's own Democratic party, are re-considering the wisdom of trying to remedy a strained economy through massive Government tax and spend policies. It seems that as more Congressional representatives (and people in general) thoughtfully digest the pro's and con's of the current spending decisions, more and more are recognizing the inherent negative consequences of it.

This link highlights concerns growing within Democratic Senators. For those (like me) who contend that the best economic medicine is fiscal responsiblity, efficient and limited Government, stimulus through lower taxes...HOPE IS ALIVE!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19587.html


Highlights if you don't read the entire article...

[Teklan]

Where is this hope that you speak of in your sentences. All this article says is that anything going through the Senate, good or bad, will likely stall now. So theres the possibility that NOTHING will get done opposed to something.

[Mandaar]

Teklan, nothing getting done is preferrable to obama doing anything.

There is no hope until he's out.

Don't tell me wait and see. We've seen. History has proven and will prove again that his philosophy cannot work in this countries method of operation.

If you believe this country should change to something less, just admit that and be done with it.

[Teklan]

So letting our auto companies fold, letting our banks fold, letting millions of layoffs go on without the government doing shit is better than trying something? Please, preach somewhere else.

[Gillaian]

I think this country should adopt the philosophical idealology of Taoism. Doing less means doing more. Example: If you are lost in the woods, you are constantly trying to find where you want to be. Now, the more you try the more lost you become. Solution, try to get lost more and you will find your way home!

Now don't get me wrong when I say this, i'm a chemist and not a economist, BUT doesn't it seem strange that instead of taking 1.5 trillion dollars and giving it back to the American people.... we give it to the banks who will charge us interest to borrow that money? Didn't we give them the money in the first place? That's like paying ATM fees.

Now, should Obama be actively trying to make this leftover shit sandwich that "someone" left for him in the fridge into something edible....sure. I just wish Congress would get off their bipartison bullshit soap box and just do what is right for the country for a change instead of what will get them the most campaign contributions for their upcoming election. This would include reading or having someone read for them, the bills that they are voting for.

The fact that many are missing when they say that Obama is just fucking shit up, is that whoever would of taken office after W, was in for a gut check. If you want to blame someone for this mess look at the previous fearless leader who looked the other way while banks fuct the people with sub prime lending.

EDIT: I would say let's start a war and rape and pillage some shit but we can't do that anymore. Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you could invade a country and suck it's resources dry? It worked for the Romans and the Mongols and the US in it's quest to devour the American Indians.

[Tessaroq]

It might not ALL be the government's fault.

2007 was the first time since 1939 that "individual debt" = GDP.

I probably got that wrong, it might be GNP instead of GDP, and it's the sum of all individual debt, but I heard it here on saturday's radio program, and they sounded like they knew what they were talking about in their dumbed down explanation of the banking crisis.

I couldn't find a good link to the audio from their site, but a decent run of it is being hosted here. The simple simple banking analogy starts around the 8 minute mark.

Edit: I found the site with the full show, here it is, you can also download the MP3 of the show or listen to it.

[dnief]

google civilian inmate labor camp program bill hr 645

[Stryffe]

[dnief]

[Stryffe]

And a time will come when you need help from the government, I look forward to that day.

Stop looking at the one bad thing and look at the good in that bill. Active and closed bases could now be set up to house people relocated due to some disaster.

People not having to live on the street means they can be put to work rebuilding their own homes faster.

Also why not make the crooks in jails build stuff on and off military bases?
We provide for them, they live on our dime, we should make something off of their crime and maybe they could learn a trade.
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I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive.

[Innania]

I just want to add that his spending is not unprecedented. The 3.6 trillion dollar budget includes defense and military spending. Bush NEVER included any kind of military spending in his budgets. Bush's '08 year budget adds up to about 4.7 trillion after military spending.

I'm not saying that Obama's plan is spending on all good things, but it's actually a decrease in spending.
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Illusionist Innania the Ultimate Illusionist of Norrath level 85 Enchanter
Sage Innamien the Bibliophile, Legend of Norrath level 85 Magician

[Teklan]

My school email gives random quotes of the day and I happened to look today haha...

[IoneMonk]

This is one reason why, maybe a big reason, that the "right" has, at a minimum, some credibility issues with the American public (apart from its epic pooch screw of 8 years in power).

[Teklan]