Appotus Dominus

[Teklan]

Me and Carp have been having ongoing discussions about whats "right" and whats "wrong" about how the government deals with immigration and illegal immigration. Here is an instance where I believe people should definitely be able to stay, what does everyone else think about a tough situation like this?:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20526051/

[Xorne]

/points to the nearest ship.
/wave.
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Xorne, Rogue Extraordinaire

[carp75]

Ask Eury one day about the immigrant situation in Lewiston, Maine. It will amaze you.

Fix America, then help other countries. I feel way more sorry for the 150 million people who are asleep to what's really going on.

Edit: I'd actually like to thank Teklan for bringing this up for discussion.
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"Political correctness is as useful to our society as racism"

~Carp

[Mandaar]

That is an example that is being used by one political party as a means to an end. They want unlimited immigration, because it will feed their voting base.

This is one seemingly noble example and it is intended to make voters say "Good lord! Something must be done", when in fact - it simply masks a huge problem in this country. Did anyone notice no paperwork had been filed?

The problem is that millions are coming here and living illegally. As cold as it is, it is irrelevant by what means they are found out. They are illegally here.

I am in FAVOR of immigration to our country being relatively open as long as it is through the proper channels. I am AGAINST the mass influx of people that are unrecorded on any ledger as being part of this place. I am not someone that fears the loss of jobs to immigration. I welcome people being faced with new cultures and new ideas.

That story is a despicable attempt to fool voters. The story IS sad, but how in the world could you live here with no papers filed? Only if you'd come without government knowledge. But, the intended result is that we fling open the borders weeping with remorse. That simply cannot happen, but the american public doesn't realize how close to that situation we are.

[Gribiel]

<3 Mandaar.

-Gribiel

[brenl]

That is indeed the rare case so to speak, and while i do feel bad for her, she is indeed being used to relay a message. More importantly though, there are millions of illegals entering this country each year, some of which are decent members of society, some also are here loafging around and draining resources that could be better used elsewhere. I would much rather see our tax dollars used n programs that better help our own citizens rather than being spent of the flotsam that sneaks into this country daily.

This is just from 1 state, granted it is one of the most populated states resulting in a higher rate of illegals, but multiply that nationwide and the cost is stagering.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/New_Jersey_Cost_Study.pdf?docID=1321
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http://www.myspace.com/dcarrie1007

Some people are just good at masking ignorance as brilliance.

[tenor]

Let us help them. I feel sorry for them. They dont have the economic mean in their conttry so they come here to live. Let us give them all we have so they can live. they deserve to live. As the people keep pooring in let us help them. so what if they are illegal. we should help the illegals first. U.S. citizens should be forgotten since they have the means to help themself. Pour million of dollars to help these poor people. Resources can alway be replaced but people cant. We should help them till we get into our grave and we be happy for it. Remember only the illegals deserve our help since they try so hard to get into our contry. California was their country to begin with so we should pay the mexican government for the privilege of use of their land in california. open borders is best so that the poor people can use our resources. We should give our resources untill we experience the conditions in Mexico. then we can really understand right?

IF i upset people soooory. this was meant as sarcasim. here is my view immigration:

/sent troops to patrol border mainland security is important too.
/illegals shot back to mexico
/let Mexico president know this is our country.


/

[WinterleafDE]

America was built on immigration. Ask those of Irish, German, French, Italians, Jewish etc decent and they can probably tell you stories from their parents parents stories. (I can remember my grandmother talking about the migrant laborers so that they could bring in the cherries, peaches and pears on the farm). All those who immigrated into the US built what we stand on now. They took the absolute crap jobs and made this country better. Being Irish at one point was considered the = of being black in the south with notations in the paper of "Irish need not apply". Now, saying you are of Irish decent and with red hair is considered a desirable trait. Think on that first before condemning those who come here. (Yes, Xorne even Canada had to import people to fill the great white expanse of Canada too)

With out immigrants incoming, there are many fewer to take the jobs the kids born in the US or even the adult unemployed WONT take due to being outside and manual labor...we loose out on some very basic needs i.e. farm labor. Today...farmers tell stories of produce rotting on trees because NO one wants the job of picking even with competitive pricing due to the lack of immigrants willing to work in the fields. This raises our general produce prices hitting many in the wallet. And thats just the farm labor. Think of your favorite restaurant and who does the dishes, busing of tables cooking etc. If no one will do the job for minimum wage or even a living wage raises prices that again hit the wallet for every one. For those saying, immigrants are taking my blue collar computer job. BS...you got replaced from outsourcing in India. The ratio of incoming immigrants with good degrees taking corporate jobs are minuscule compared to those who are willing to actually do a days work under the sun to improve the chances for their children.

With that being said. It's not just about "immigration", it is also about skin color. Notice the US is not building or campaigning for a fence to keep the Canadians out...just those with brown skin from Mexico. Ask those who have tried to get a citizenship. There are stories of those from Mexico taking years to get citizenship...however when they changed their nationality to say Swedish...it took days (2-3 weeks if I remember the story correctly).

With immigration, the US is also one of the few developed countries still with a growing population and a younger generation that is not out numbered by those 30+. Read on how Japan is actually top heavy these days with an aging population and not much hope of reversal as couples opt to have 1 or no kids due to cost/lack of space etc. They will soon need to import from outside just to keep up with the rest of the world in another 40 years because there will not be enough to do the jobs that are there. The same can be said of many of the developed European countries as well. In France they pay couples to have kids. BTW read on their lack of integration and immigration policies. They still have riots. So far...we don't.

Why should a parent be parted from their US born child (who has citizenship) when a parent who is a US citizen can import their children from over seas? (Vietnam was a prime example of US soldiers bringing home wives from over seas and/or their kids). The child is no a non tax payer that may be a burden on the social system now, where as if the parent were allowed to stay that parent could be paying taxes and not only being a contributing member but raising a child to be a contributing member.

There are two sides to this coin. Yes we need immigrants. Yes they should be paying taxes and be counted for voting. The government is in a push-pull for open immigration to isolationists (which didn't work in the 1910's if any one has read their history before WWI on US policies then). Read your history people, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past if we do not take into account what didn't work prior. It is very short sighted to bar every one or make the bar so high as to be impossible on either side.

/Soap box off
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[Mandaar]

If immigrants want to come here to work, great come here through the normal channels.

This is against ILLEGAL immigration.

Yes, legal immigration is neccessary and if you want to discuss reforming immigration restrictions as they exist, that's great.

If you're advocating we support the illegal immigrants, sorry but no. We needed wild, open immigration when we were filling the country. Now we need moderate, controlled immigration. Anything else is illogical.

[Aetemius]

Deport Mandaar now!
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Duvyen Deportee
Appotus Dominus

[brenl]

[Drauger]

Personaly i could see if the person had kids with a american citizen and there for there child or children were american citizens then yes they should stay . I do have to give them credit for at least trying to come here legaly but for the most part they get married for the required years to some loney guy or gal then dump them after and take them for what they can , have heard stories of people that has happened to.

Living in San Diego CA with some cities with 20 to 30 percent of illigals that they will admit to i have seen lots of emgency rooms close down schools flooded with there kids some of which were born here and some shiped here from mexico on a daily bases and jobs lost to greedy bosses who have a skilled person train a illegal then get rid of the skilled person and keep the illegal at half the cost. just my 2 cp since i was told by a boss who i hired by down here that if i wanted to work i had to work for the low wages they offered or 100 mexicans would be happy for the job needless to say i needed the work and took the big pay cut compared to what i used to make

[Auger]

There are 3 issues of concern in this country, and here is a way to resolve them all in one shot...

Problems:
1. Illegal Immigration
2. Flooding in areas like New Orleans (due to the land being below sea level)
3. A large over population of gators in Florida, encroaching on developed areas.


Solution:

1. Dig a trench along the WHOLE border with Mexico and flood it.
2. Take all the dirt from the trench to places like New Orleans and build them up to help prevent flooding.
3. Relocate all the extra gators from Florida to the newly constructed trench.

End of problem...

[Mandaar]

Lol auger... you n00bert COME BACK AND PLAY!

[carp75]

Drauger's situation makes me sick. I place the responsibility on the greedy corporations not the Mexicans.

1000's of greedy corporations spreading their cumulative pestilence on us. We've created these monsters, it's time to take them down.
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"Political correctness is as useful to our society as racism"

~Carp

[Maige]

I think they have that story all wrong.

He wasn't jumping in to save two drowning boys. ACTUALLY, he was jumping in the cold waters to end his miserable life as a married man. Never underestimate the power a wife has to drive her husband to suicide in order to get away from her :p

- Maige
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Maige Denugget
Master of the Elements
Arch Mage of the GNOMISH kind

Is this a modrod in my pocket, or am I just happy to see you?

[Santina]

OMG I TAWT I TAW A GNOME! I DID I DID I DID TAW A GNOME!

Hi Maige <3

[Aetemius]

Deport Tina. Save SoCal!

[Mandaar]

Deport all the moose, then she'll follow them.