Appotus Dominus

[Teklan]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29641091

[Innania]

Funny enough (or not so funny), Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the US.
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Illusionist Innania the Ultimate Illusionist of Norrath level 85 Enchanter
Sage Innamien the Bibliophile, Legend of Norrath level 85 Magician

[Teklan]

Cuba has some of the best doctors out there, or at least I am led to believe it.

Just because the US has a trade embargo against Cuba doesn't mean the rest of the world does. Even Ramolin and Beeriian can go visit there freely (they are dual citizenship of America / Canadian and live in Canada). Venezuela hooks up Cuba with oil and the likes in exchange for some of their doctors.

[Mandaar]

Thank you for posting those very slanted statistics.

If you want to go to cuba for health care, you be my guest.

Sound bytes without context are useless. That's why news is useless today. What does the number mean? What are the alternatives? What do non-biased sources think?

Is this just one source amongst many that disagree wildly?

None of the info you posted is of any use if evaluating the situation.




What IS telling is that they had to go to very odd, by any standards, statistics to make the USA not come out on top. When people report that cuba has better health care, they don't tell you the story behind the story. Statistics lie. Badly.

People that don't understand that statistics without context are nothing but useless fluff to be disregarded are dangerous.

[Teklan]

[dunnodoncare]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

I'm assuming the WHO would be a satisfactory source of information on global health.

I find many Americans are reluctant to accept not being #1 in any given category. Can you find any global health statistics that put the US on top? Even one? I tried and failed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0505/p02s01-uspo.html
Or maybe infant mortality is more your thing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12699453/

Always base your opinions on the facts, because trying to base the facts on your opinions fails every time.

Medding.

PS. If British Columbia were a nation, we would have the longest life expectancy in the world as well as being in the top five for education systems. You can look that up if you like.

[Wizpopfizz]

I very much enjoy our healthcare system. A good friend of mine in Alabama has a sick toddler, constant lung/throat issues, they have to keep shelling out for ER trips and doc visits because they can't afford a solid medical plan.

While it *may* take a while in Canada to get some tests run (primarily MRI) there are alternatives, many simply head across the border to a private facility and shell out a few hundred to speed up the process.

It's always been a load off of my mind, that if I ever need it, it's covered. It ensures that every child is given the same level of care, regardless of the parents' income.

Sure, most would say we shell out a hell of a lot in taxes for this, and why should I pay for, say, Mohammad Q Ching's healthcare when he just immigrated from Micronesia, but honestly not having known any other tax system, I really don't notice myself losing anything substantial. Sure all Canadians bitch about taxes, but so does every other country.

As long as I still have food on my table and booze in my cup, I have no problems shelling out a few bucks to help the sick.
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[Mandaar]

Every one of those stats is primarily determined by one thing: Eating habits.

We have the worst eating habints in the world in the USA. And yes, that is a statistic too.

Gosh, all we have to do is see who lives the longes with the most quality of life and that = best health care right? Fucking idiocy. That is why non-scientists (politicians) should NEVER be allowed to report any statistic.

That's the problem with statistics, they utterly lack context if you don't know the PRECISE METHOD USED TO GENERATE THEM. MANY MANY reported as gospel statistics are thrown out there and used to move billions of dollars. Many of them are hopelessly flawed.

Statistics don't lie, but people use them to do so.

There is not one sane person in the US that would go anywhere else for health care EXCEPT to Canada for laser eye treatment (that guy in windsor) or to Europe for experimental drugs if they have lots of money and are going to die.



When people learn that the things they are told day in day out, EVEN BY THE WHO, are things to be heard but examined, then we'll be a lot better off. Tell me all you want that USA is 1,263th in world health care and I will laugh in your face and still get better health care than you do.

[Teklan]

When you base your feelings of US healthcare via subjective reasoning versus statistical analysis which is objective reasoning, you will lose the argument 100% of the time.

Your argument has no basis to it other than how you feel. The things I have put forth and medding has put forth are quantitatively described and are not subjective. I'm sorry, but you have to put down your sword on this one. You have yet to give any proof as to why the US is a better healthcare system, yet we've given you tons that argues it is not the best.

[dunnodoncare]

Is there any evidence of a difference in eating habits between the US and Canada? I would be quite surprised. In fact, I would like to see a source for that. Seriously.

One of the major problems with the US is that so many americans are too busy shouting "We're number one! We're number one!" to actually bother making their country number one anymore. When people believe they are the best they often don't try as hard. You can see that in everyday life, you can see that in professional sports. If you dispute the statistics of the WHO I'm guessing that experts in the field, americans among them, would dispute those stats also. I'll ask for a source on that too. Can't hurt to back that kind of opinion up with a source, can it? If a significant amount of doctors and medical professionals agree with you then you will have no problem at all finding sources. If you find you cannot, then maybe you should reconsider your opinions.

Arrogance is a problem. Claiming your country is the best at something when independent analysis disagrees with you is arrogance, plain and simple. Some people in the US get the best health care, but overall the level of health care is less than other nations because so many people cannot afford the treatments they need. Because of this many nations get better health care overall because they provide it via socialized medicine. The worldwide statistics support this. I expect that you would agree with those stats only if they agree with your preconceptions.

The US has a horrible record with infant mortality. Horrifyingly bad, largely due to people being unable to afford proper medical care. These are established facts. If you want to dispute them, bring sources.


Medding.

[Wizpopfizz]

only difference in eating habits i can think of that differ, is that we eat our foods in sections. we'll eat our corn, then our potatoes, then our meat.

ok, yeah, anyway, i don't think there's too much difference, except in our fast food. I think we have less fast food options up here, of course we make up for it with Timmie's.

I know the meat is definitely different up here, probably eggs and dairy as well. I would imagine there are more additives/growth hormones added down south, as it's easier to have things like that passed thru the FDA or whatever, i dunno.

I've also read somewhere that the majority of canadians prefer their meat well-done, where's rare/medium rare are much more common in the USA.

no basis for any of this, but it could also have a lot to do with the US healthcare system
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[Righteous]

[Mandaar]

As always, you raise a good point medding with a question I should have answers for, but don't.

I will do some looking into that and hopefully, be a bit smarter than I was before you posted. I will print out what I find and share the highlights whether they support my initial post or not.

[aevark]

i think its illegal to serve a burger that isnt well done in canadian restaurants, yet its super common in US. and i eat one thing at a time too Wiz! haha

[Teklan]

[Wizpopfizz]

http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/
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